Discussion:
The AOB Cipher - Test Sample - Variant_3
(too old to reply)
a***@hotmail.com
2018-03-06 08:14:09 UTC
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The last sample of ciphertext posted two days ago has not been broken.

The key space of this cipher is currently 3000 factorial permutations and each permutation of the key is a fresh independent variant of the cipher implementation. The key space can be increased at will within the upper bound of the computer CPU integer overflow i.e. 2^31 -1.

This post demonstrates the next implementation that I am calling Variant_3

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Austin O'Byrne
#!/usr/bin/colin
2018-03-06 08:45:56 UTC
Permalink
Shortly after...
#!/usr/bin/colin
2018-03-06 08:47:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by #!/usr/bin/colin
Shortly after...
actually how appropriate that text was, as it lasted 1/2 an hour
a***@hotmail.com
2018-03-06 08:56:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by #!/usr/bin/colin
Shortly after...
Can you post the messageTextFile to prove what you are saying. - AOB
#!/usr/bin/colin
2018-03-06 09:05:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@hotmail.com
Post by #!/usr/bin/colin
Shortly after...
Can you post the messageTextFile to prove what you are saying. - AOB
Nope, I don't want to be falsely accused of stealing stuff.
a***@hotmail.com
2018-03-06 09:09:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by #!/usr/bin/colin
Post by a***@hotmail.com
Post by #!/usr/bin/colin
Shortly after...
Can you post the messageTextFile to prove what you are saying. - AOB
Nope, I don't want to be falsely accused of stealing stuff.
That's a pretty lame excuse.

Actually I clean forgot to generate a new key both yesterday and again today but no excuses.
Richard Heathfield
2018-03-06 10:34:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@hotmail.com
Post by #!/usr/bin/colin
Post by a***@hotmail.com
Post by #!/usr/bin/colin
Shortly after...
Can you post the messageTextFile to prove what you are saying. - AOB
Nope, I don't want to be falsely accused of stealing stuff.
That's a pretty lame excuse.
Why? You falsely accused MM of stealing the last plaintext, so Colin has
good reason to be concerned.
Post by a***@hotmail.com
Actually I clean forgot to generate a new key both yesterday and again today but no excuses.
You are beginning to see the problem of key management. It's not as easy
as it looks, is it?
--
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within
Chris M. Thomasson
2018-03-06 11:37:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@hotmail.com
Post by #!/usr/bin/colin
Post by a***@hotmail.com
Post by #!/usr/bin/colin
Shortly after...
Can you post the messageTextFile to prove what you are saying. - AOB
Nope, I don't want to be falsely accused of stealing stuff.
That's a pretty lame excuse.
Actually I clean forgot to generate a new key both yesterday and again today but no excuses.
Shi% happens man.
Richard Heathfield
2018-03-06 12:27:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris M. Thomasson
Post by a***@hotmail.com
Post by #!/usr/bin/colin
Post by a***@hotmail.com
Post by #!/usr/bin/colin
Shortly after...
Can you post the messageTextFile to prove what you are saying. - AOB
Nope, I don't want to be falsely accused of stealing stuff.
That's a pretty lame excuse.
Actually I clean forgot to generate a new key both yesterday and again
today but no excuses.
Shi% happens man.
And it's far more likely to happen when key management is made so difficult.

I am, however, delighted by the implication that AOB has managed to get
key generation down to a mere day - a vast improvement on the several
weeks it used to take him.

The rest of us can, of course, generate a new symmetric key in the time
it takes to type a command and, perhaps, blink an eye.
--
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within
Rich
2018-03-06 13:12:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Heathfield
Post by Chris M. Thomasson
Post by a***@hotmail.com
Post by #!/usr/bin/colin
Post by a***@hotmail.com
Post by #!/usr/bin/colin
Shortly after...
Can you post the messageTextFile to prove what you are saying. - AOB
Nope, I don't want to be falsely accused of stealing stuff.
That's a pretty lame excuse.
Actually I clean forgot to generate a new key both yesterday and
again today but no excuses.
Shi% happens man.
And it's far more likely to happen when key management is made so difficult.
I am, however, delighted by the implication that AOB has managed to get
key generation down to a mere day - a vast improvement on the several
weeks it used to take him.
I suspect we are seeing the effect of his spending two weeks generating
two keys (one week per key). After-which, he can switch keys (once) in
one day instead of one week.

Now, for key three.....
Post by Richard Heathfield
The rest of us can, of course, generate a new symmetric key in the time
it takes to type a command and, perhaps, blink an eye.
Of course, but the rest of us are also operating at a significantly
higher level of computer competence than Austin.
Rich
2018-03-06 12:54:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris M. Thomasson
Post by a***@hotmail.com
Post by #!/usr/bin/colin
Post by a***@hotmail.com
Post by #!/usr/bin/colin
Shortly after...
Can you post the messageTextFile to prove what you are saying. - AOB
Nope, I don't want to be falsely accused of stealing stuff.
That's a pretty lame excuse.
Actually I clean forgot to generate a new key both yesterday and
again today but no excuses.
Shi% happens man.
This, however, is what we have been telling him about his atrocious key
changing method (edit 28,000 lines of Ada code). It is so burdensome
that Alice is going to screw up just like he did now, and reuse the
same key.

And when that happens.....
FromTheRafters
2018-03-06 11:11:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by #!/usr/bin/colin
Post by a***@hotmail.com
Post by #!/usr/bin/colin
Shortly after...
Can you post the messageTextFile to prove what you are saying. - AOB
Nope, I don't want to be falsely accused of stealing stuff.
:D
Richard Heathfield
2018-03-06 11:18:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by #!/usr/bin/colin
Post by a***@hotmail.com
Post by #!/usr/bin/colin
Shortly after...
Can you post the messageTextFile to prove what you are saying. - AOB
Nope, I don't want to be falsely accused of stealing stuff.
So how did you retrieve the plaintext, then? Did you use grep(1) to
crack into his computer? Or cat(1), perhaps? Or sort(1), maybe?
--
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within
#!/usr/bin/colin
2018-03-06 20:33:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Heathfield
Post by #!/usr/bin/colin
Post by a***@hotmail.com
Post by #!/usr/bin/colin
Shortly after...
Can you post the messageTextFile to prove what you are saying. - AOB
Nope, I don't want to be falsely accused of stealing stuff.
So how did you retrieve the plaintext, then?
Oh was that a serious question?


Did you use grep(1) to
Post by Richard Heathfield
crack into his computer? Or cat(1), perhaps? Or sort(1), maybe?
--
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within
Richard Heathfield
2018-03-07 09:44:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by #!/usr/bin/colin
Post by Richard Heathfield
Post by #!/usr/bin/colin
Post by a***@hotmail.com
Post by #!/usr/bin/colin
Shortly after...
Can you post the messageTextFile to prove what you are saying. - AOB
Nope, I don't want to be falsely accused of stealing stuff.
So how did you retrieve the plaintext, then?
Oh was that a serious question?
About as serious as the next three...
Post by #!/usr/bin/colin
Post by Richard Heathfield
Did you use grep(1) to
crack into his computer? Or cat(1), perhaps? Or sort(1), maybe?
...quoted here.
--
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within
#!/usr/bin/colin
2018-03-07 17:59:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Heathfield
Post by #!/usr/bin/colin
Post by Richard Heathfield
Post by #!/usr/bin/colin
Post by a***@hotmail.com
Post by #!/usr/bin/colin
Shortly after...
Can you post the messageTextFile to prove what you are saying. - AOB
Nope, I don't want to be falsely accused of stealing stuff.
So how did you retrieve the plaintext, then?
Oh was that a serious question?
About as serious as the next three...
Post by #!/usr/bin/colin
Post by Richard Heathfield
Did you use grep(1) to
crack into his computer? Or cat(1), perhaps? Or sort(1), maybe?
...quoted here.
Thats what I originally thought but just checking

For the record anyway.
1 erzbir fpenzoyvat sebz zz xrlfgernz
2 cybg pvcuregrkg gb trg arj fpenzoyvat cnenzrgre
3 nccyl arj fpenzoyvat cnenzrgre
4 qrpelcg
Rich
2018-03-07 18:09:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by #!/usr/bin/colin
Post by Richard Heathfield
Post by #!/usr/bin/colin
Post by Richard Heathfield
Post by #!/usr/bin/colin
Post by a***@hotmail.com
Post by #!/usr/bin/colin
Shortly after...
Can you post the messageTextFile to prove what you are saying. - AOB
Nope, I don't want to be falsely accused of stealing stuff.
So how did you retrieve the plaintext, then?
Oh was that a serious question?
About as serious as the next three...
Post by #!/usr/bin/colin
Post by Richard Heathfield
Did you use grep(1) to
crack into his computer? Or cat(1), perhaps? Or sort(1), maybe?
...quoted here.
Thats what I originally thought but just checking
For the record anyway.
1 erzbir fpenzoyvat sebz zz xrlfgernz
2 cybg pvcuregrkg gb trg arj fpenzoyvat cnenzrgre
3 nccyl arj fpenzoyvat cnenzrgre
4 qrpelcg
Fb, qbrf vg ghea bhg gung uvf 'inevnagf' ner fvzcyl gur fnzr xrlfgernz
ohg jvgu n qvssrerag "fpenzoyvat cnenzrgre" nccyvrq sebz uvf njshy
fpenzoyvat nytbevguz?
MM
2018-03-07 19:06:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich
Post by #!/usr/bin/colin
Thats what I originally thought but just checking
For the record anyway.
1 erzbir fpenzoyvat sebz zz xrlfgernz
2 cybg pvcuregrkg gb trg arj fpenzoyvat cnenzrgre
3 nccyl arj fpenzoyvat cnenzrgre
4 qrpelcg
Fb, qbrf vg ghea bhg gung uvf 'inevnagf' ner fvzcyl gur fnzr xrlfgernz
ohg jvgu n qvssrerag "fpenzoyvat cnenzrgre" nccyvrq sebz uvf njshy
fpenzoyvat nytbevguz?
lrf, rkprcg gung guvf bar vf abg sebz gur inevnagf fgnoyr. vg nccrnef
gb or n arj guvat onfrq ba uvf aba ercrngvat naq fgevpgyl vapernfvat
gurbel.

M
--
MM
2018-03-07 19:20:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by MM
lrf, rkprcg gung guvf bar vf abg sebz gur inevnagf fgnoyr. vg nccrnef
gb or n arj guvat onfrq ba uvf aba ercrngvat naq fgevpgyl vapernfvat
gurbel.
V unir abg frra gur fbhepr sbe guvf, ohg V fhfcrpg vg znl or nf rnfl gb
ohfg bcra nf gur bar v oehgr sbeprq n srj lrnef ntb.

M
--
#!/usr/bin/colin
2018-03-07 23:24:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by MM
Post by MM
lrf, rkprcg gung guvf bar vf abg sebz gur inevnagf fgnoyr. vg nccrnef
gb or n arj guvat onfrq ba uvf aba ercrngvat naq fgevpgyl vapernfvat
gurbel.
V unir abg frra gur fbhepr sbe guvf, ohg V fhfcrpg vg znl or nf rnfl gb
ohfg bcra nf gur bar v oehgr sbeprq n srj lrnef ntb.
M
zl qbg rapelcgvba oernx jbexf ba inevnag guerr ohg trggvat abguvat bhg
bs inevnag gjb lrg.
( hfvat fbegrq xrl fgernz nf envaobj gnoyr )
Richard Heathfield
2018-03-07 19:35:30 UTC
Permalink
On 07/03/18 17:59, #!/usr/bin/colin wrote:

<snip>
Post by #!/usr/bin/colin
For the record anyway.
1 erzbir fpenzoyvat sebz zz xrlfgernz
2 cybg pvcuregrkg gb trg arj fpenzoyvat cnenzrgre
3 nccyl arj fpenzoyvat cnenzrgre
4 qrpelcg
So, not *completely* trivial, then.
--
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within
MM
2018-03-08 08:24:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Heathfield
So, not *completely* trivial, then.
Fair call,
I thought about it later and was probably obvious to me because I've
done the ground work.
Could you please code it up, if this won't waste any of your valuable time?

Something like Python could be an incentive for The World's Greatest
Cryptographer(™) to learn something.

M
#!/usr/bin/colin
2018-03-08 08:51:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by MM
Post by Richard Heathfield
So, not *completely* trivial, then.
Fair call,
I thought about it later and was probably obvious to me because I've
done the ground work.
Could you please code it up, if this won't waste any of your valuable time?
Something like Python could be an incentive for The World's Greatest
Cryptographer(™) to learn something.
M
Wouldn't be a waste of time, because I need an excuse to learn Python,
but that would mean don't expect it quickly.
MM
2018-03-08 09:03:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by #!/usr/bin/colin
Post by MM
Could you please code it up, if this won't waste any of your valuable time?
Something like Python could be an incentive for The World's Greatest
Cryptographer(™) to learn something.
Wouldn't be a waste of time, because I need an excuse to learn Python,
but that would mean don't expect it quickly.
Shout if you need a hand.

List comprehensions (q.v.) are worth looking at, I suspect.

M
--
#!/usr/bin/colin
2018-03-08 09:16:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by MM
Post by #!/usr/bin/colin
Post by MM
Could you please code it up, if this won't waste any of your valuable time?
Something like Python could be an incentive for The World's Greatest
Cryptographer(™) to learn something.
Wouldn't be a waste of time, because I need an excuse to learn Python,
but that would mean don't expect it quickly.
Shout if you need a hand.
List comprehensions (q.v.) are worth looking at, I suspect.
M
BTW. I think I'm getting close to cracking variant 2.

looking like the double scrambling as in the corruption example, with
values of 37 and 38.

also lcm( 37,38 ) = 1406 revealing another repeating pattern.
Richard Heathfield
2018-03-08 10:42:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by #!/usr/bin/colin
Post by MM
Post by #!/usr/bin/colin
Post by MM
Could you please code it up, if this won't waste any of your valuable time?
Something like Python could be an incentive for The World's Greatest
Cryptographer(™) to learn something.
Wouldn't be a waste of time, because I need an excuse to learn Python,
but that would mean don't expect it quickly.
Shout if you need a hand.
List comprehensions (q.v.) are worth looking at, I suspect.
M
BTW. I think I'm getting close to cracking variant 2.
Note to self: never say "nobody cares enough", because somebody probably
*will* care enough (or, at least, be bored enough).
--
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within
#!/usr/bin/colin
2018-03-08 19:15:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Heathfield
Post by #!/usr/bin/colin
Post by MM
Post by #!/usr/bin/colin
Post by MM
Could you please code it up, if this won't waste any of your valuable time?
Something like Python could be an incentive for The World's Greatest
Cryptographer(™) to learn something.
Wouldn't be a waste of time, because I need an excuse to learn Python,
but that would mean don't expect it quickly.
Shout if you need a hand.
List comprehensions (q.v.) are worth looking at, I suspect.
M
BTW. I think I'm getting close to cracking variant 2.
Note to self: never say "nobody cares enough", because somebody probably
*will* care enough (or, at least, be bored enough).
My excuse is I might learn a "pulse width modulation" technique
#!/usr/bin/colin
2018-03-29 22:26:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by #!/usr/bin/colin
Post by MM
Post by Richard Heathfield
So, not *completely* trivial, then.
Fair call,
I thought about it later and was probably obvious to me because I've
done the ground work.
Could you please code it up, if this won't waste any of your valuable time?
Something like Python could be an incentive for The World's Greatest
Cryptographer(™) to learn something.
M
Wouldn't be a waste of time, because I need an excuse to learn Python,
but that would mean don't expect it quickly.
Sorry, this probably won't happen.
MM
2018-03-30 13:34:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by #!/usr/bin/colin
Post by #!/usr/bin/colin
Post by MM
Something like Python could be an incentive for The World's Greatest
Cryptographer(™) to learn something.
M
Wouldn't be a waste of time, because I need an excuse to learn Python,
but that would mean don't expect it quickly.
Sorry, this probably won't happen.
No worries.

M
--

Richard Heathfield
2018-03-06 10:36:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@hotmail.com
The last sample of ciphertext posted two days ago has not been broken.
Is that the potentially corrupted ciphertext that I asked you a question
about that you haven't yet answered?

Anyway, it now looks very much like Colin /has/ broken it. Is that the
case, Colin?
--
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within
#!/usr/bin/colin
2018-03-06 11:15:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Heathfield
Post by a***@hotmail.com
The last sample of ciphertext posted two days ago has not been broken.
Is that the potentially corrupted ciphertext that I asked you a question
about that you haven't yet answered?
Anyway, it now looks very much like Colin /has/ broken it. Is that the
case, Colin?
History tells me AOB will go quiet until it is revealed how it was done,
and then come up with some lame "it's not a break" excuse.

The plain text I posted was decrypted using a method that was only
sightly less trivial than MM's break.
Richard Heathfield
2018-03-06 11:18:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by #!/usr/bin/colin
Post by Richard Heathfield
Post by a***@hotmail.com
The last sample of ciphertext posted two days ago has not been broken.
Is that the potentially corrupted ciphertext that I asked you a
question about that you haven't yet answered?
Anyway, it now looks very much like Colin /has/ broken it. Is that the
case, Colin?
History tells me AOB will go quiet until it is revealed how it was done,
and then come up with some lame "it's not a break" excuse.
The plain text I posted was decrypted using a method that was only
sightly less trivial than MM's break.
Got you. You used malloc(3), right?
--
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within
#!/usr/bin/colin
2018-03-06 11:27:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Heathfield
Post by #!/usr/bin/colin
Post by Richard Heathfield
Post by a***@hotmail.com
The last sample of ciphertext posted two days ago has not been broken.
Is that the potentially corrupted ciphertext that I asked you a
question about that you haven't yet answered?
Anyway, it now looks very much like Colin /has/ broken it. Is that
the case, Colin?
History tells me AOB will go quiet until it is revealed how it was
done, and then come up with some lame "it's not a break" excuse.
The plain text I posted was decrypted using a method that was only
sightly less trivial than MM's break.
Got you. You used malloc(3), right?
actually libreoffice
Richard Heathfield
2018-03-06 12:25:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by #!/usr/bin/colin
Post by Richard Heathfield
Post by #!/usr/bin/colin
Post by Richard Heathfield
Post by a***@hotmail.com
The last sample of ciphertext posted two days ago has not been broken.
Is that the potentially corrupted ciphertext that I asked you a
question about that you haven't yet answered?
Anyway, it now looks very much like Colin /has/ broken it. Is that
the case, Colin?
History tells me AOB will go quiet until it is revealed how it was
done, and then come up with some lame "it's not a break" excuse.
The plain text I posted was decrypted using a method that was only
sightly less trivial than MM's break.
Got you. You used malloc(3), right?
actually libreoffice
Ah, I see. Yes, it's a well-known cracker's tool[1][2]. In fact, it's
the same tool I was using when I discovered the 220930 oddity in the
ciphertext of (I think) Variant 2, the one he posted about 48 hours ago.

[1] thinly disguised as an office suite
--
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
[2] jung vf gur orggvat gung nbo jvyy npghnyyl oryvrir guvfd
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